[MidoNet] [MidoNet-dev] [MidoNet-user] Slack vs IRC

Sandro Mathys sandro at midokura.com
Wed Aug 5 06:14:06 UTC 2015

On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Tomohiko Kimura <tomohiko at midokura.com> wrote:
> Hello there,
> I suggest that we make a decision based on data instead of "this is what I
> think I/other people would do", etc.

The discussion is also hardly making any progress as neither party
seems to budge. So maybe it really is time to think of other ways to
settle this debate.

> - If we see more participations from external contributors after the
> migration to Slack, that seems to me a big plus. But we've gotta be careful
> in judging if it's due to the migration to Slack, or actually due to us
> becoming more known.

As far as I understood, the concern was rather that a number of
Midokura developers were not active on IRC but are now active on Slack
- and that they would again not join us on IRC.

The number of active non-Midokura contributors remains small and I
don't think we have data to show the difference of the move in

Also, this decision won't only affect contributors but also users.

> - It sounds too optimistic to me to think that switching back to IRC would
> dramatically reduce the entry bar to near 0.
> So, in the worst case, why don't we run both Slack and IRC for a limited
> period of time, say 3 to 6 months? For sure that'll be added complexity /
> maintenance cost, but it seems like worth paying if migration to IRC really
> helps grow our OS community.

Interesting idea but let's be realistic. It might be possible to
accommodate users on both at some extra cost but splitting up
developers would be very inefficient. So we would still have to decide
on where development related communication is supposed to happen. We
also can't do meetings on both at the same time. Or promote both

So maybe we should start a poll and invite all mailing lists
subscribers and Slack members to it - that's currently 175 unique
email addresses (however, some seem to have registered using more than
one address). We could use Cornell University's Condorcet Internet
Voting Service [0] and send everyone a personal link/code to vote.

-- Sandro

[0] http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/

> My 2 cents,
> Tomohiko
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 3:07 AM, Michael Ford <mike at midokura.com> wrote:
>> Hey Guys,
>> We can go back and forth on this but we had almost zero activity when we
>> were using IRC and that includes us as Mido's.  We seemed to gain traction
>> when we went to Slack.   Can anyone let me know why Mido's were having no
>> activity when we had IRC?  We see IRC as "the thing to do" not because of
>> useful features.  You can get most of the features you want in slack with
>> better message archiving.
>> If we went back to the way it was before with no one using it that would
>> be pretty bad.
>> Thanks,
>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Ernest Artiaga <ernest at midokura.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 7:05 PM, Ivan Kelly <ivan at midokura.com> wrote:
>>>>>  backtrace history for all users,
>>>>  Only up to 10k messages it seems
>>>>> easy channel discovery,
>>>> Normally when I want to ask people questions about an open source
>>>> project in real time, I'll go to my IRC client which I already have open,
>>>> and connected to freenode and do /j #projectname. This normally works. When
>>>> it doesn't work, I give up. I suspect it's similar for other people also.
>>>>> easy signup,
>>>> As opposed to no signup.
>>> For me, this is a clear advantage. When I want to know about an open
>>> source, I prefer lurking a bit, having a look at the mailing list archives,
>>> forums or any other open media that does not require signing up. If I have
>>> to sign up, probably I'll give up.
>>>>> When we were on IRC previously, we had an issue of many of our
>>>>> contributors not participating. When we moved to Slack, we saw a dramatic
>>>>> uptake in activity.  I am afraid that moving back to IRC will lower
>>>>> community adoption.
>>>> People are only going to have any midonet specific chat open if a) they
>>>> have the client open all the time already or b) work almost exclusively with
>>>> midonet. For a), i think much more people will have IRC open, especially
>>>> since for linux slack requires a tab to itself for each team. For the latter
>>>> crowd, they'll use whatever the majority of the rest are.
>>>>> Many of the existing MidoNet devs and users are already using Slack for
>>>>> their work, and we've heard no major complaints.
>>>> Slack sucks <- here's one :)
>>>> Especially if you use linux.
>>> You have a second one. Slack experience is a real pain in linux :-)
>>>  Ernest
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> MidoNet-dev mailing list
>>> MidoNet-dev at lists.midonet.org
>>> http://lists.midonet.org/listinfo/midonet-dev
>> --
>> Michael Ford
>> Main: 888.512.0460
>> Fax: 626.228.3551
>> Cell: 925.548.6667
>> Email: mike at midokura.com
>> Cotap: http://cotap.me/michaelford
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>> MidoNet-dev at lists.midonet.org
>> http://lists.midonet.org/listinfo/midonet-dev
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